Naming WordPress ?

At what point does WordPress get named and we work with that and the version number ? Although releases have been named, we don’t actually use the names do we, refering instead to the version number but at some point soon won’t there be a need to define releases that much better ?
The release of version 1.5.1 is imminent and although it contains a lot of bug fixes and people should upgrade, it isn’t essentially different is it ? The underlying structure remains the same, yet looking at the Codex for Version 1.6 shows that item #1 there is this: “Support for mass deployment (allows people to host multiple blogs securely and without having to manually create each one)“. Now… if you want this feature (though I have no clue why) then this is potentially wonderful news. But if you do not, you will have code in your install which you do not need – and for an individual user, that means the code is bloated. No matter which way you spin it, if 1.6 offers a significant feature that you will never use then why bother getting 1.6 ?

(Given that by now – the time you have been reading this – I could have completed a fresh WP install I have never seen why this need for multiple installs. Just because MT did it that way first does not make it either a good or desirable goal. All I can see is some complex code and a ridiculous amount of questions from people about users levels etc.)

Anyway, 1.6 (or Version 2.0 / whatever) will cater for the “multi-bloggers”. Okay – but who and what is catering for the monoblogger ? Will we be forced to have this capability so we are able to keep up ? (Keep up with what though ? There must be people out there running b2 who are perfectly happy – my host still offers it as a 1-click install!) Or will the view be that 1.5.1 withers and dies and that people will almost be forced to adopt the multi-blogging script simply because of how things will evolve ? This last part seems wrong to me – continually raising the bar is not always a good thing.
I certainly feel that if 1.5.1 is the last code that is purely for monoblogs, it should be named and supported within the current WP framework, and when multi comes along (but WPMu is already here) it slots in there too. In a years time how do we differentiate questions / answers for people with potentially two releases ? I suppose I’ve answered my question in that there will only ever be a current release, but then the more features you add to anything, the more you lift that standard the more room underneath you leave for a competitor – and the goal of WP is blogging domination ? ;)

21 thoughts on “Naming WordPress ?

  1. For me, multi blogging is quite important, and something I’ve wanted for a while (and yes, I have been toying with WPMU). It means you can create online communities with many users each having a blog, for example, without bloating out server space with multi installs. I can also see it becoming more of a CMS than a blogging tool in the future if it keeps going at this place.
    As for two products, I suppose the answer is if you’re happy with the install you have now, why upgrade? Keep it and flow with it!
    On the counter though, I’d advocate a WordPress and a WordPress MU. Stick v 1.6 into the Mu banner, then you can choose single or multi user depending on your preference. (tho there is a significant size difference between 1.5 and MU atm, 1.3Mb compared to 2.3Mb)

  2. WP CMS …. yup, me too and there has been talk of such. But as soon as people get the idea that WordPress is a CMS, many might stop taking it up as a blogging tool.

    And for upgrading – I suppose what I mean is that (for instance) 1.5.1 becomes the Standard WP Release, (WPSi ?) and that any security issues are addressed but that it continues to be actively supported (it’s own set of forums ?) as far as any OSS product can be. And will I upgrade to a MU WP ? No, don’t see the point.

    It’s almost like one WP development needs to stay here while the rest forges ahead. Or maybe the Roadmap needs a lot of writing put on it ? I can’t be the only person wondering.

    Or maybe I should think more before I blog and edit these entries…

  3. Perhaps it is because I’ve never understood the whole multiple blog thing. (I don’t see the point, especially with the way you can have so many templates and such with 1.5, I’d think that’d be better than fifteen blogs running for the same person. And frankly isn’t a multiple install faster, if using for multiple people?) Regardless I totally agree with the above and I’m definitely one of those “will never use this feature” people, I really don’t understand why WP would o that way. Is the need that great? I’d think the people without multiple blogs would far exceed the verse, and still I return to the fact that I don’t see the point.

  4. Probably the main advantage that a single multi-blog WP install is preferable to multiple single-blog installs is that it is much easier to keep them all up to date. If a new version of WP comes out, instead of having to make multiple deployments, only one roll out is necessary.

    The other big advantage is that you have a unified login, a single signon of sorts. If there is a need for a user to be able to post to multiple blogs, then with a single MU system, there is no need to setup multiple accounts.

    I agree with your main point though. There will always be a tradeoff between feature set & convenience vs simplicity and focus. It’ll always be a judgement call on the developer’s part whether a particular feature is necessary for the masses or an example of bloat. They’ve done pretty well so far:-)

  5. OT. I have never yet seen a single coherent statement as to what WP actually does now. Not all of it. I bet many users – me included – are not using half the feature set. Secondly IMHO the WP theme thing is very cool. But it has added to the complexities for the end user a hundred fold. I dont know whether MU continues that trend or reverses it.

  6. I think that if WP is going into the multiple-blogging market it should branch. As you say, people are going to have a lot of code that they just don’t need. I already happen to feel that WP is way too bloated. There is stuff in there that your average blogger just doesn’t need and probably wouldn’t understand. TXP keeps the main code short, sweet and clean. Extra functions are provided by plug-ins, that’s proper plug-ins that you just click a button to install not hacks and includes a variety of back-end plug-ins too. Anything that is found to be very popular may appear in the main code after a time but it is a very selective process. The result of this, if you care to check, is that the TXP download is far smaller than the WP one and it looks as though WP is going to get even bigger.

    As for multiple-blogging there are far simpler applications out there such a pLog which I use for NeverLand. The problem with multiple-blogging is that you will get a group of bloggers with various skill-sets. For a complex app. like WP this may mean that you end up spending most of your time helping out the less skilled rather than blogging yourself. This type of app. needs to be as simple to use as possible.

    As for WP being a CMS – dream on. It is an excellent blogging tool for those skilled enough to use it but beyond being able to hack together a few “static” pages it sucks big time as a CMS. I left the WP clique with the advent of 1.3 which I don’t think ever got a name as it never really got officially released. I could see at that point that it was never going to suit my site which has a lot more outside the blog than in it. I maintain an interest in it’s development and a test site with the latest public release to mess with other people’s messes and experiment on my own stuff but I know that it is of no use to me and thebombsite.com

    I don’t put TXP above WP or vice versa because they are both excellent at what they do and you should choose whichever is best for your site, not redesign your site to suit the application you want to use because someone keeps telling you it’s the best thing since sliced bread.

    TXP is a CMS.

    WP is a blogging application.

    Is that coherent enough? End of conversation!

  7. IfElse – they have done a good job so far, but the time is looming for a decision. Even Pages is a function I care not for (I have 1 which if the blog went would need to go anyway)

    Root – I agree, but then I cannot name a single application which I use 100% of.

    Stuart – I want a blog app. Nothing more or less which is why I posted. I bow to your wider experience (I’ve tried TXP on testblogs a number of times and dislike the interface) and if I take your word, then WP attempting to be a CMS could mean the worst of both.

    What bugs me is that we might not see people upgrading and the forward development of WP (and maybe other tools) as much because they are excited by the featureset as more to do with lack of backward compatibility for tools to combat the spammers. The lack of compatibility is down to the coders (yes I know..it’s GPL I can change it myself) but I would certainly like to see a solid “Want to blog ? WP is what you need” type approach rather than it try to be all to everyone. I don’t think it’s just me who sees the future as being too damn fuzzy right now.

  8. I agree it should be one thing or the other. TXP was coded as a CMS from the ground up. WP was coded as a blogging tool from the ground up until it moved to 1.3 at which point the devs. started trying to “bolt things on”. I think Matt, who happens to be a Textdrive resident if you didn’t know, saw where TXP was heading and tried to go the same way. I’m afraid that method just never works very well. They should stick to the blog side and clean it up and debug it properly, something we are currently going through with TXP to get it to final 1.0 status. The other thing about TXP is that publicly you can only get the RC1 version which is nice and stable but doesn’t have all the current features. I’m on RC3 but you can only get it via SVN. The thinking behind that is that if you aren’t knowledgeable enough to use SVN then you shouldn’t be messing with RC3. I think it’s fairly logical. Half the battle at the WP forum is with people using betas, gammas, deltas or whatever who haven’t really got a clue what they are doing. In fact many of them have no idea about CSS so how the hell are they going to get the most out of the software especially if it’s a bit buggy?

    Thankfully we don’t get those sort on the TXP forum or, at least, they are very few and far between. Then again at the moment, we don’t have as many users as WP. That’s a good thing until the final 1.0 arrives. Until then TXP is best served by a smaller user base that knows what it’s doing. When the final 1.0 arrives I suggest you give it another go. You might be pleasantly surprised. As I say, we have admin-side plug-ins now. And WP themes? TXP has always had them but in a different format. It has always used templates, which is something Matt copied, and you can have as many style sheets as you like. It’s simple enough to swap them around. I used to have 3 different selectable styles available on thebombsite and the page layout would change depending on the style you picked and that was with RC1.

    Hacking? My RC3 install is completely hack-free. I do mess with the odd plug-in but the basic TXP code is exactly as it was written. Quite handy when you are upgrading to new revisions almost daily at the moment. But just think about that for a moment. Totally hack-free.

    Spam. Touch wood I don’t get any and I’m not aware of a single anti-spam plug-in for TXP. It doesn’t need them. Spam is blocked by the way it is coded. Think on that. Totally spam-free.

    WP should consider paring itself back to a good but basic blogging app. with solid clean code. Anything else that a user wants should be a plug-in. That way people can have as much or as little as they want and that way we can have the best CMS in the form of TXP and the best blogging app. in the form of WP and ne’er the twain should meet.

    How am I doing?

  9. Stu – Again my knowledge of TXP is lacking. I do have to say though that getting hold of a nightly / svn version is a lot harder now and the forums are not swamped like they were, so that’s a good change.

    I am still though looking at what I have here in this install of WP and wondering what I need. Not what I might want, not what I might use because it is there, but what I actually definitely want. And I am seeing excess code.
    Partly this is because I can build a site myself with no need for an app that makes pages, but also because I want to blog. Nothing else.

    I would LOVE to see a “WP Blog Version”. I seriously doubt this will ever happen though and that in too short a space of time, people will download it – like I have Drupal today – take a look and think “Nah. Too much there!”

    Tomorrow I’ll install bBlog, pLog …. see what’s what.

  10. Root, my initial thought that WP should branch for multi-blogging would cover MU I think. The standard WP should leave it well alone and allow MU to go down that path.

    Mark I actually though that Mingus was a good “stopping” point. It should have been well and truly debugged allowing the more experienced users to file bug reports and the devs to concentrate on “fixing” them, something I feel they’ve been a bit too lax with.

    Let’s be quite frank about “Themes”. This has been developed purely in the interest of those users who don’t have the appropriate CSS/HTML skills to design their own site. Templates could have been developed for Mingus very easily without Themes. Simple PHP “includes” would have done the job just as well but as I say, your average user would probably have got lost with that idea. Maybe they shouldn’t be told about it? You, Root and I certainly have the skills to do it. That old index.php file could have easily been split up. I think a well debugged Mingus could have been an excellent blogging tool. Can you get hold of one?

  11. I think it would need to be 1.2.1 cuz if I remember correctly they found a bit of a hole in 1.2 and I have Gemini available for it too. Shall I template it for you? How do you like them? I remember using an included menu for mine back then. In fact I was “including” menus back in the old days before I used any software for this stuff. Try it on your test site first just to be sure.

  12. Thanks for the offer !
    What I’m going to do is have a good look at what is in 1.5 that I DO actually want. Right now, SpamKarma2 is top of that list as my quirk of protection has been worked around (took their time though..).
    I installed Drupal and bBlog onto another site last night and certainly Drupal is now off my list – far too clunky.

    This – in a way demonstrates the core issue here: Just because WP is a smaller installation and has a nice interface out-of-the-box does not give it a licence to keep adding things in. You cannot be all things to all bloggers/CMS users and I wonder if the internal complexity in inexorably on the rise – and Codex just isn’t the answer to everything.

    My other option – which I may well do if bored – is just to start removing what I do not need. While that may not speed things up or result in any particular savings, if some of the fat goes (beauty being in the eye of the beholder) then that is good. Could be fun too !

  13. Oooo that archive brings back memories. 1.0.2 Blakey was where I started then I moved in September just prior to 1.2.1 though, of course, I’ve used them all on my test site. What happened to 1.3 or do they consider that the true starting point for 1.5? Look at the size of those downloads! Still bigger than TXP but they are a good 100k smaller than today. And I don’t suppose they’ve archived plug-ins have they? I wonder if this could be the start of a new trend. :grin:

  14. Underlying some of this dialogue is an idea that WP is still in development. That may be true technically but off hand I can’t think of anything that it doesnt do already. In a sense it is finished. A bit of debugging, a bit of simplifying maybe. But it is nearly ready to ship.

  15. I have named mine.
    It was the nightly build of the 16th, and I have now completed both a ruthless cull of plugins (though a couple more could yet go) and I have stripped the admin side of everything I do not use.
    Next stage is removing any code I don’t want but that may prove tricky.

    I’m out of the loop now.

    Answers have not been forthcoming and it is PAINFULLY obvious that WP as a whole does not want “Joe User” around. Fine – that is who my support has been aimed at and if JU ain’t around, then there is no use for me.

    And what really puts the tin-fucking-lid on all this is that this is the 4th occasion where, in the past, I have pointed out faults in WP yet at the time have been ignored. Then along comes someone else and “SHIT, we GOT a PROBLEM”. It’s because I don’t code.

    Whatever ….

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *